Keskustelu mallineesta:Shared Template Warning

Teksti pitäisi olla suomeksi fi-wikissä. Poistoon/käännettäväksi? Ipr1 (keskustelu) 2. toukokuuta 2019 kello 11.44 (EEST)

Näyttää siltä, että käyttäjä on luonut (tarpeettoman?) mallineen en-wikiin ja sitten kopioi sitä eri projekteihin. Kyllä tämän kanan lento on syytä katkaista heti. --Pxos (keskustelu) 2. toukokuuta 2019 kello 12.22 (EEST)

Ipr1 and Pxos, this template was created as part of the project to allow many wikis to share the same templates and modules - see project page. This specific template is just a warning that will be placed on all shared pages (once created and shared) - so that people know how this system works. It will allow smaller wikis to concentrate on content creation rather than converting and maintaining existing templates. Let me know if this makes sense :) Thanks! --Yurik (keskustelu) 4. toukokuuta 2019 kello 08.48 (EEST)

P.S. if you agree, please undelete and rename it to fit with fiwiki rules. There is a link to translate that template -- just click on it and edit the translation table, and it will automatically update on fiwiki. Thx! --Yurik (keskustelu) 4. toukokuuta 2019 kello 08.51 (EEST)

Templates and modules need to be localized and often cannot be shared automatically. It is wrong to assume or allow such a thing without reviewing changes. For example, eng.wiki uses comma (,) as separator for thousands while it is used as decimal separator in finnish. That is just one example of many. Each case needs to be reviewed separately before allowing to be transferred. Even superficially similar modules have changes such as fixes for finnish grammar like in Moduuli:Authority control. Overwriting them with a bot would be a bad idea. Ipr1 (keskustelu) 4. toukokuuta 2019 kello 12.48 (EEST)

Ipr1, I am well aware of all those differences. I think you misunderstood how the system will work. It will not override anything automatically. It will ONLY update fiwiki version of the template IF the fiwiki version was identical to the previous version of mediawiki template. In other words, if fiwiki and mediawiki were identical, and mediawiki version gets updated, fiwiki version will reflect that. If you do any changes on fiwiki, they will no longer match to mw, and they will not be overwritten. Please see all the rules the bot follows at mw:WP:TNT.

Second thing -- we are not talking about all templates. Just the ones that were created specifically for this system. Those templates will use a global translation table, which will take care of language differences.

Lastly, you are right about review -- I manually review every change to make sure of a good quality. --Yurik (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 02.57 (EEST)

Mitäpä jos opettelisit ensin suomea, ennen kuin yrität tuoda mallineita suomenkieliseen wikipediaan? -Ochs (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 10.26 (EEST)

Ochs, not knowing Finnish did not stop me from helping fiwiki maintain tens of thousands of interwikis, or create the map technology that Zache adapted in the Malline:Tietolaatikko/MapFrame used on over 7000 fiwiki pages (looks awesome btw, thx Zache!). I am glad that my attempt to help fiwiki share and participate in cross-wiki multi-lingual templates, something that most of the world including at least one fiwiki user has requested (see [1] and [2]), had such a welcoming response from you. --Yurik (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 10.55 (EEST)

Voisin vastata englanniksi, mutta en viitsi enkä halua. Suomenkielisen wikipedian yksi tehtävä on puolustaa suomen kieltä ja kulttuuria englannin kielen ylivaltaa vastaan. En halua tänne ainuttakaan englanninkielistä mallinetta. Niistä on todennäköisesti enemmän haittaa kuin hyötyä. Koska et osaa suomea, et ole pätevä asiaa arvioimaan. Meillä on käyttäjiä, jotka osaavat tehdä tarpeellisia mallineita. Tarkoituksesi on hyvä, mutta apusi ei tällä kohtaa ole tarpeen, kiitos. -Ochs (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 11.35 (EEST)

I think it is still pretty naive to think we could avoid messing up things, question is when and how problems are discovered. Bugs happen - you need to live with it, not pretend they could be avoided. For example, translation tools make such poor garbage they are not allowed and results will be removed each time someone uses that. For some reason it has not been disabled and it is a constant pain in the backside to deal with. If the tool is not good enough it would be better to remove it than allow it's existence. Ipr1 (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 20.53 (EEST)

Ipr1, I agree, bugs happen, and we shouldn't hide them. Having shared template library actually helps with that -- there are far more people looking at the code, and each module will be required to have much higher standard (e.g. testcases), than an individual wiki will ever have the resources to have (especially smaller ones).

You are correct that auto-translation is usually bad. But lets not confuse the manual work of programming a Lua module with an automatic translation -- those are very different things. My system does not do automatic translation. The community will translate everything by hand, just like it does now with the MediaWiki interface itself. See translation table example. --Yurik (keskustelu) 5. toukokuuta 2019 kello 23.07 (EEST)

The template has just recently been created anew and subsequently undeleted by competent people. --Pxos (keskustelu) 7. toukokuuta 2019 kello 12.56 (EEST)